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Home >> Diet Forums >> Diets to shrink belly pudge?

Diets to shrink belly pudge?

Yum said: "It's making me so depressed and I am hating myself. Please....anyone! Any exercises or diets or foods!"

Yum said: "I Know You Can't Spot Reduce! Geez, Okay!"

MsMolly said: "What is every poster in this threads take on the ab lounger? My hubby got one as a b'day gift, I use it a few times a week I feel it does tighten the stomach area, but thats just MHO.. :eek:"

DLT said: "Sit Ups - Sit Ups and more Sit-Ups, that will flatten your tummy! Becareful and start out gradual, don't over do it."

pixiechic said: "please explain why these types of exercises don't work. i'm afraid i don't understand the point of this argument.."

pixiechic said: "well, he looks really good for being 50 or 51."

Yum said: "Yea, then what happens when I lose weight in some areas but not in others? Also, by doing crunches and ab workouts, my stomach DOES NOT stick out as much. There ya go. Proof."

pixiechic said: "everyone here adds some of this and some of that. the thing is were all here for basically the same reason. to get into better shape, no matter what our goals or our pant sizes might be. i like the spark of discussion! an interesting thing that i've learned is that fat cells have the ability to split once they get to a certain point (eeek..) that births a new fat cell. and it goes on. so if you store your fat in your thighs for instance, the fat cells drain the lipids it contains, but the fat cell remains waiting to once again fill with lipids. ..once you have them, they are always there no matter what your weight it."

pixiechic said: "[QUOTE=stroutman81]Pixie: I am not here to get in better shape. I am here to help people. I agree that I love the spark of conversation as well. However, I dislike blantent argurments that are worthless due to the validity of what they are arguing against.[/QUOTE] that's cool. everyone is entitled to their own opinion. and sometimes people don't agree. that is when it might be best to agree to disagree. results ultimately tell whether or not something works, and something that might work for one person might not work for another. find what works for you, and then stick with it."

featherish said: "I would have to say that healthy diet, regular cardio exercise and strength training are the triumvarate of successful weight loss. You can't have one without the other."

featherish said: "Not to mention the fact that it is going to take work and effort. If you take a look at some of the best athletes, they didn't win gold medals on the first day they decided to compete. It takes a lot of sweat, determination,training, sacrafice (and tears, I'm sure) to be number 1. It isn't something that "just happens" without a WILL to do it. Even though none of us here are looking to be in the Olympics, it is the same concept. Hard work will pay off. What are you willing to do to have the body that you want and deserve?"

Cupcake said: "I know everybody takes to different diets differently... but when I did south beach, I lost inches on my belly first."

Cupcake said: "That man's 50?! *** purrrrrrrrr *** lol. Certainly shows you what hard work can do!"

Darren said: "I think we're clouding the issue a bit. Wouldn't great abs require both exercise and proper nutrition?"

Darren said: "Yep. Better than me at 39. LOL"

Darren said: "There's nothing wrong with arguing. We all shouldn't agree. Just try to be respectful. I really think someone who wants to get their abs to show, better knock off the excess body fat. "Nice abs" are an end result."

cvalh said: "You can't spot reduce, everyone is correct in saying this. You CAN, however, tone the muscles in your belly. Even if the fat is still there, it will make you appear firmer. Stick with crunches and other ab exercizes for this."

cvalh said: "Strout, just to clarify... Sometimes the "pooch," especially for women, is as much because of untoned muscles as it is because of fat. I agree, if there's a lot of fat there, it doesn't help the appearance that much... But if it's a combo of problems, then the toning will tighten her abs up and make it look better."

cvalh said: "[QUOTE=stroutman81]Building muscle under fat will not even pull your fat in tighter to your body.[/QUOTE] I beg to disagree - solely from personal experience. Granted, if you build up muscle in most places, it could even make the fat stick out farther... But with the stomach, if you tone it properly (and I DON'T mean create a huge, muscly six-pack), everything is more pulled in - even the fat (just think about all the beer-bellied men on the beach who suck in their guts when a hot girl walks by)."

cvalh said: "I'm willing to leave it as a disagreement, but I think we might be looking at it in two different ways... Muscle IS a sticky substance, as much as anything else in the body is. If you tighten your abs (and I don't mean bulk them up), the fat isn't suddenly going to hang away from the muscle and stay in the same place it was before. This will make your tummy smaller, even if you can't SEE that it's more toned. In Yum's case (who I believe started this thread), It sounds like she probably does not have a large amount of fat on her, which would mean that if she does tone the muscle, you'd likely be able to see it. As for speaking personally, I think this is often the best way to do it. Science can say whatever it wants (and apparently even there, you and I have learned differently, and I too am well versed in the human body), but reality is where we get our best education. Not dissing your ways, just expressing my opinion :)"

cvalh said: "Uhmmm, I missed a lot today. But I do see where I believe Strout misunderstood me. I didn't claim that you could reduce the fat on your stomach by toning the muscle. I think I need to just put this as simply as I can. If there is a LOT of fat on your stomach, working the abs isn't really going to change what you look like. I was addressing a person who likely did NOT have a LOT of fat there. I agreed with one of the things Qian said (I think Qian), which is that if you work the abs, you tighten them up. In the case of the abs, if they're weak, your belly tends to "hang out." If they're strong, it tends to pull things in. Including the fat. Finally, I do agree with Razor that if you strengthen them enough, they will become big. And if they become big, the fat continues to sit on top and possibly even sticks out further. I never said you could make yourself look better without cardio and proper nutrition. That is reading things into my words that were never said. Yum asked for ideas, I said that while you can't spot reduce, there are things that help tone the stomach. I hope this clarifies. Having read all the frustration with (rough paraphrase here) "people who don't know much and won't listen," I think we all need to take a deep breath and make this seem a little less like an argument, regardless of claims that it's only a discussion."

UniqueMystique said: "Stroutman is correct, Yum. There are no diets, foods, or exercises that will perform or cause spot reduction. Exercise and eating right is the key to lose it naturally. There are alternatives, liposuction, tummy tucks, mesotherapy, but they cost money and they aren't guaranteed because if you keep the same habits....it comes back. The best thing anyone can do is to make healthy changes in their lifestyle."

UniqueMystique said: "*Applauds* That's the simplest version I've seen of what's been said in this entire post, Heather! I think everyone can understand it!"

UniqueMystique said: "Ok.....if you set a pan of water on the burner.......all the water is going to boil eventually. Exercise is like that.......Exercise benefits the 'whole' body....not just one area. You can be working you ass off on your abdominal area....but that energy that you are creating is working throughout your whole body and you are losing fat from your not so 'troubling' areas first. Trouble spots are the last to go...that's why they are 'trouble spots'! Even if you set a pan of water on the edge of the burner....the whole pot will eventually boil."

UniqueMystique said: "Nah!.......don't go anywhere, Strout! You make it interesting...and you're making people think. Just think how boring this world would be if everyone agreed with everything that you said. ;)"

UniqueMystique said: "You are never wasting your time if you encourage at least one person to think."

UniqueMystique said: "I know....I look at some posts and just shake my head. Others make me sit up straight and go, "Hmmmmmm....never thought of it like that". Strout......I think that your information is very helpful and full of knowledge. I don't think I've disagreed with any of it to this date. However.......take a look at the site's 'name'. People are going to disagree with you because they chose this site to do it 'their way'. Many of these people would have passed this site up if it were named, "Featherish.....Let's Learn To Eat Healthy, Do Cardio, And Strength Train...No Other Options Available". ;) It sounds like 'work'. Doesn't mean that you should get discouraged. You have a wonderful canvass here. Paint your pictures.....people will eventually 'get it'...if they are serious about looking and feeling better."

UniqueMystique said: "Liposuction isn't the only way...there is a procedure called mesotherapy. Tiny injections into the fat.....it melts the cells away."

stroutman81 said: "There seems to be an overwhelming confusion in this forum that you can spot reduce an area of fat on one's body. I think this should be something that we really focus on educating people on this board with. You can not spot reduce a certain area of your body. If you want to lose fat in your belly, you are going to have to train with aerobics and hopefully weights as well. On top of that, you will need to start eating healthier. You many be sensitive to carbs and have to lower your carb intake a bit. Or you could may not be eating healthy, which then it is simpler then reducing your carb intake. You may just have to clean up your diet. Just know that you can do belly exercises until your heart is content.....but that will not make the fat go away. Nutrition is probably the number one factor you should worry about."

stroutman81 said: "That means, cupcake, your belly fat is not your stubborn area. You do not lose fat evenly.....a woman could lose fat in her upper area (belly and handles) but have a hell of a time shedding the fat in her thighs and buttox. You cannot say "I am going to create a plan to lose the fat on my stomach" and expect it to work. It is a proven fact that you CANNOT spot reduce."

stroutman81 said: "Cvalh: I have to disagree. You can build muscle all you want, but if there is fat covering it.....it will not make you appear any firmer. It merely hides under the fat. I know you did not say this, but just to touch on it while we are on the subject; you can not turn fat into muscle either. So if you have 40 lbs of fat hanging on your belly.....you can def. build a nice set of abs. However, you will not even notice them because there is 40 lbs of fat covering them. Now if have a very minimal amount of fat on the stomach area, sure, if you build your abs large enough, you may start to see them ever so slightly, but that is it. Most people I see are carrying a lot more then "a little" fat on their midsections; and they are training so hard with the expectations of getting a set of abs. That is just not so, and I do not want anyone to be misled. So does that mean you should not do crunches. Hell no, that does not mean that, nor am I saying that. Just be doing them for the right reasons. You should be training your muscles all over, not just your abs. The reason being, the more muscle you build on your body, the faster you metabolism will become, and the more calories your will burn naturally daily, leading to more fat loss. When doing aerobic activity, you burn calories and fat while you train. When lifting weights, you are losing fat not while you train, the majority comes after you lift and what lifting actually leads to (more muscle). Hope that makes some sense.....sorry, was in a huge rush. Steve"

stroutman81 said: "Yum, don't post if you don't expect responses. I now know not to respond to yours. Thanks for the insight."

stroutman81 said: "Cvalh: I agree with that notion....and that is the same thing that I said in my previous post. If there is a very minimal amount of fat covering the abs.....sure, building your abs may make you appear a bit firmer, but that is even a long shot. Building muscle under fat will not even pull your fat in tighter to your body."

stroutman81 said: "Cvalh: Well we will leave it as a disagreement then....no biggy. Muscle is by no means a sticky substance, nor does it have the ability to attach itself to fat and suck it in. I know when I have been on injury and increased my body fat by a few percentage points....you could slowly start to see my abs vanish. However, I do not like to speak personally. I would rather stick to muscle and fat and the logical properties of both. Take it easy."

stroutman81 said: "Oh boy.....haha.....I think I should just jump out of this discussion before it is too late; only kidding! You can not tone verse bulk up with weight lifting. You either add more muscle, maintain muscle, or burn muscle. That is it. If you are versed in the human body, that is fine. We need more people that are versed in the human body in here to educate. However, you speak of toning. Most people are confused on what toning really is. For instance, a woman asks how can I tone my belly. This is the last time I will say this. It is what I have done for the people I train, it is what I was taught through education and certification, and best yet, it was what I PERSONALLY taught myself through sculpting my own body way before any of my education. You do not have to preach to me about scientific vs. personal expererience. I totally abandon what the FDA presents in their findings on what Americans should consume. They are most lab rats wears white chemisty gowns all being more then overweight. Toning has to do with fat loss. You can build muscle until you are gray in the face, but if your body fat is high, you will not be "tone." I think this is the bottom line and if you find otherwise, I would love to see some references because it would be news to me and many others in the fitness industry. You stating that you can make a soft belly appear a little more toned by developing some muscles under the fat is in essence called spot reducing using exercises to create more muscle in that region. This has been proven impossible time and time again. I guess my question to you is this. If a human has fat on their belly area, and they build a nice set of abs without losing the fat, what in essence happens to give them the toned look simply from the added muscle? I just want to understand your through process and ideas (knowledge). Also, DLT mentioned doing sit ups. That will do nothing for the fat that is located on the belly. A true set of abs are developed primarily through proper nutrition and fat loss and secondarily muscle development. I hate to disagree so much with the previous posts, however, I really would like to get to the bottom of this discussion. And please, I hope you realize that I am not arguing, merely discussing and debating. I believe this is how you get to the truth."

stroutman81 said: "I will clarify the discussion that Cvalh and I are having (it is not an argument!)...LOL. Ab exercises do build your muscles. However, I am debating that even though you may be building your Abs, you will not make your stomach tone without shedding the fat first. It is a commom misconception that you can just do sit ups and you will get a ripped stomach. And this point goes for any muscle group.....not just your abdominals. You can build your muscles very large in the gym, but if at the same time, you maintain a high body fat %, you will not tone your body. Toning comes from proper nutrition. Look at most world class power lifters. These men are very large, but they are rounded and look almost fat. That is b/c, though they have huge muscles, they are also high in body fat. Cvalh states that you can tighten your stomach with proper exercise, and I debate that it actually takes nutrition to tighten up the stomach. You cannot spot reduce fat on the body by doing exercises. You can build the muscle but it will just hide under the fat. Believe it or not, but most fat people have a nice set of abs that they never get to see. From holding all the extra weight, it actually works the abs more then the average person. If they were to shed their fat and get down to low body fat levels (which takes extreme dedication and hard work) they would see a nice set of abs, having never actually done any ab exercises. I am also debating that toning comes from diet, not exercise. When lifting weights you build your muscle (if fueled properly with food and rest). There is not one way to lift to tone and another way to lift to build muscles bigger. It does not work that way. You either build them by lifting or you don't. To get shredded, you need to reduce your bodyfat levels. I am sorry if I made it sound like these ab exercises do not work. I went into great detail in another post in here how that is not what I am trying to prove. If someone has getting the toned or shredded look in mind, here is what they should know. That look comes from very low body fat levels. Those low body fat levels are acheived through proper nutrition. This does not mean do not lift weights. I am 100% for lifting weights, haha, I am a personal trainer. But, for instance, do not say, "my belly is fat so I am going to do cruches everyday." Your thought process should be this. I want to lower my body fat levels so I am going to plan my nutrition plan out and supplement healthy eating with BALANCED weight lifting and aerobic exercise. The aerobics will help burn the fat while you train. The weight lifting will build more muscle which is an active tissue. By having more muscle, you increase the amount of calories that you burn naturally by just being more muscular. Hope this clarifies for those who have been reading this string of posts. I know there are some educated people on this board that know what I am stating....help me out here!!! I am amazed that this has not been discussed before."

stroutman81 said: "Wow, I am seriously awwed by the thought processes some of you have on here. Qian, all I can say is you need to do some research before you go making your claims. Building muscle and losing fat are two totally and completely different processes that do not go hand on hand. Therefore, your theory really goes out the window about; "if you can spot gain, you can spot reduce." I understand that you are stating just what you believe, but the truth is, you can not spot reduce. I hate to sound like a know it all....that is not at all what I want to come from this. I am just hoping someone with some knowledge on the subject matter joins in on the discussion."

stroutman81 said: "I never stated that one loses fat evenly throughout their body. I am stating that you can not pick and choose where you will lose fat from (spot reducing). That is not how it works. Your body will lose fat in places that it is hardest for your body to gain fat. If you are familiar with the LIFO method of accounting (last in first out) it is similar to that. Where it is easiest for your body to accumulate fat (for each person it can be different) that is where it will be hardest for you to lose. It will be your stubburn area. This does not mean that spot reducing is possible. If your thighs are your problem area, that does not mean that you can just focus on your thighs and you will lose fat faster from your thighs. Just to clarify, I have seriously dedicated my life to fitness and nutrition. I am young, but my entire life it is has been my passion. I am not just some guy spouting off what I believe. I am saying what I know. I am sure there are some others in here that are in the same boat as me....I have met a few. SPOT REDUCING IS NOT POSSIBLE. Featherish, you are correct in what you say. I just do not like to keep things simplistic. Well I do not use technical jargon, but it takes a whole lot more then just telling someone they need to exercise properly and eat right. I like to make sure there is an understanding of the full concept in as simple of a way as possible. All three of those ingredients are very necessary; proper eating, weight training and aerobic activity. They actually work in a synergy with one another. This means that 1+1+1 does not equal 3. You get more then that when you put the equation together properly. But to really execute it properly, it takes full understanding and education, which some people do not have. I apologize if I am rambling on this board, that is not my goal. If that is what it is viewed as, I will surely stop as I do not want to waste my time (not saying you stated this Featherish). I am just trying to educate. Featherish, also, did you start this forum? If so, congratulations...great concept."

stroutman81 said: "Thank you Razor and UniqueMystique: Finally a lil help....LOL. I was about to give up on this board and go elsewhere. Read their posts, those people know what they are saying. I would not go to a doctor when I am sick and tell him/her that they are wrong with the diagnosis. I let them be the expert in their field. I believe that I am an expert in fitness. However, I can't remember the last time I posted and was not questioned on the validity of my post. I love this forum I think because of how responsive it is. However, the very fact that I bring up, about the questioning, is almost enough to drive me away. Qian: if you work out your thighs and you lose inches that probably means you are losing fat from that area. Atleast you would hope that is what it means. It is either fat or muscle. One is good, one is bad. If is fat, that means you have constructed a plan that is working. It should entail slightly restricted calories (be careful not to trigger the starvation response), and energy expenditure through aerobic and anabolic (weight training) exercises. If you are losing muscle, that means that you have sent your body into starvation mode and your body is actually running off of its muscle rather then fat (energy). I have posted many times regarding the starvation response and will not get into detail here. If you do not think you have triggered starvation response it could mean that you are overtraining your muscles. Overworked muscles can lead to deterioration. Hope that answers your questions."

stroutman81 said: "haha, interesting as it may be.....i spend a lot of time posting in here and don't want it to be for entertainment. I think you could understand that. I spent a large portion of my life to get me to where I am today and did not do it just so I could waste my time."

stroutman81 said: "You are right....and I do usually try and find the good in anything that I do. Sometimes this forum just puts a lot of smog blurring up the good. Oh well, have to roll with the punches I guess."

stroutman81 said: "Thanks UniqueMystique, you cheered me up!"

stroutman81 said: "Qian: I will have to spend some more time later this evening checking out that website. Looks like a lot of flashy hype, but who knows. I am sure he has some good information. All I know is that people who promise fast results is usually out to make money rather then truly help people. Mind you, anyone could create a flashy website and sell their ideas. Better yet, anyone can start a website and sell something that completely does not work, but make is sound like it is the next best weight loss technique or muscle builder out there. Welcome to America, where a new guru or fly by the seat of your pants idea comes out every hour. I am not saying that this is what this guy has done, because I am unfamiliar with him and need to read into it. I am just warning you, not to buy into a lot of the crap in the fitness industry. So much of it is junk!"

stroutman81 said: "Pixie: I am not here to get in better shape. I am here to help people. I agree that I love the spark of conversation as well. However, I dislike blantent argurments that are worthless due to the validity of what they are arguing against."

stroutman81 said: "Ummmm.....yea"

Razor said: ""If you tighten your abs (and I don't mean bulk them up)," Please explain the difference of the two to me. :)"

Razor said: "Um sorry DLT but you are wrong. You can do all the sit-ups in the world but if you do not get your body fat down to a low percentage, then you won't see any abs. Have you ever heard the saying "Abs are made in the kitchen, not the gym" I actually know a guy you does not even isolate his abs. He only works them as synergist when he is working other muscle groups. Once he dropped his fat, then you saw his abs. I will see if I can post his pic. He is the guru of nutrition. We actually did a little experimenting with macro timing tactics. Oh by the way he is 50 maybe 51 now, so no excuses from the older group =)"

Razor said: "I also wanted everyone to notice on my picture that I posted, his weight! It never changed but he shed 13% bodyfat. So next time you do not see that scale move, throw it in the trash!"

Razor said: "Actually, you can increase LBM selectively. The difference between this and fat-spot-reduction is that body fat is simply metabolically dead -- whereas muscle and connective tissue is very dynamic and will grow/respond to direct stimulus "would they reduce as quickly as if you did excercise them?" It is not whether or not you reduce there. Your answer is yes, but only because you are building lean muscle mass, not neccesarily reducing fat in that area."

Razor said: "[QUOTE=Yum]Yea, then what happens when I lose weight in some areas but not in others? Also, by doing crunches and ab workouts, my stomach DOES NOT stick out as much. There ya go. Proof.[/QUOTE] OH! How when we were young =)"

Qian said: "I read all of the posts and I'm going to disagree with you. Just a thought, and again this is my opinion. If you can "spot build" i.e. work out your arms and they will get bigger, work out your legs and they will get bigger. Why can't you "spot reduce" work out your abs and lose 3 or more inches? I think most people would like that. Paul Bragg stated that, "Fat can only accumulate in an area of the body where there is the least amount of activity" I guess what he means is fat goes where there is no activity, but according to the "can't spot reduce" idea, this should be impossible, because if you can't spot gain i.e. muscle, fat, weight, then you can't spot reduce. If you don't work out your legs or arms they get soft and shrink. If you don't work out your abs they get soft and stick out. I'm pretty sure most people have experienced something like this, whether they broke a bone or got sick, and were unable to work out. The area that wasn't active got flabby, and the areas that were able to stay active stayed the same. Went on a diet and lost 50 lbs, but it was all in the upper body, my lower body stayed the same. Sounds like that is a "spot diet". If fat leaves the body at the same rate, and you can't spot reduce, then why when some people lose weight they lose it everywhere but the "problem area" Some people will say that if you drop 3, 4, 5, or even 6 inches from the waist you need to be doing something else, like cardio. But I'm pretty sure we could find people that do cardio, and alot of it, and still don't lose weight, the gyms are full of them, but take that same person and enroll them in lumber jack camp for a few months, and their body will change, how did this happen without cardio. One final point, in horse shows, people want a horse to be lean and muscular, but no matter how much you work the horse out, a fold of fat still forms on the neck underneath the mane. How do they get rid of that? They put the horse thru they're normal workout, and then wrap the area in a sweat blanket for about an hour, then remove and put the normal blanket on and the fatty area goes away. Like I said this is my opinion, if you can spot gain, then you can spot reduce."

Qian said: "Then what do you call it when a person on a diet loses in certain areas and not others? Please I like to learn so educat me."

Qian said: "Okay, i agree, you can't go on a diet and say i'm going to lose weight from my thighs and it will come off. But if your thighs happen to be your problem area, and you don't excercise them at all, would they reduce as quickly as if you did excercise them? The reason I ask is I agree with the fact that if you don't lose fat, your muscles would not show, but working the problem area would increase blood flow to that area and help with the loss Correct? Along the same line, if you do work out an area like thighs and it loses inches where did the excess go to? Thanks. By the way, I agree that, proper diet and excercise are the way to go."

Qian said: "Thanks for your help guys much easier to understand."

Qian said: "By the way, Stroutman81 you might want to check out [url]www.mattfurey.com[/url] That is where I read the info on spot reduction. He has an excercise program that I really enjoy doing and has worked. He is educated in fitness and nutrition, but has some different views, some of which I think have helped me out. Let me know what you think. The way y'all described it makes a little more sense to me. Thansk again"

Qian said: "Liposuction is the only way to get rid of fat cells, and that is not a good thing to do. I would rather shrink them. Fat cells are nasty things."

Qian said: "Hey Strout, How you doing today? Was wondering if you had an opportunity to look at that site yesterday? Wanted to get your opinion on it. Thanks."

dietfriend said: "Well in my experience, however controversial ...I have improved my pooch (lower belly) with mesotherapy I feel that it works well... along with a food portion control, low fat, low carb (good carb) diet and exercise. I have lost 43 LBS. and 4 inches in that cross section of my abdomen. I have gone from 183 LBS to my current weight of 140 LBS...it was by no means an easy way to wearing my size 8's (from size 14-16). It did take me about 6 months to lose the weight however, I did notice immediate results as far as inches (tape measure). I'm extremely happy, :D with the results and I am planning to continue using the methods described above...look into it, it may be for you, too! I think it would be worth exploring even if you decided not to try it... I hope I could help you out in some way:D :D :D Goal Weight: 120 LBS Height: 5"0 (very short) small frame"